RootOffs / Excluding the World Cup, what is the best soccer tournament in the world?
Cherith Cutestory says:
I'm going to assume that I will be expected to take the UEFA Champions' League considering that I had first option, but I'm not going to go that route. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing better than a European night with Chelsea playing Barcelona while Arsenal and Manchester United are going against each other, but I think there is a tournament that is better, at least for the duration, than the UEFA Champions' League is.
The tournament?
None other than the FA Cup.
So why is the FA Cup a better all around tournament than the UEFA Champions' League? Because anything can happen. Last year, Cardiff City made a run to the final. Two years ago, Barnsley knocked out Liverpool and Chelsea in back to back rounds. Who could forget Wimbeldon FC in 1974-1975 when, as a non-league side, they knocked out West Ham, who was 6th in the first division, then held reigning first division champions Leeds United 0-0 at Elland Road. While there are some surprises in the UCL, it is no where near the amount that is seen in the FA Cup.
On any given day, the FA Cup can have history written. The UCL, though it does feature the best teams in the world going against each other, cannot offer anything like that.
However, before I make more of an argument, I'll wait to see what tournament you have picked.
I believe the FA Cup is a good choice. I had it narrowed down to the UEFA Champions League and European Championships. After much deliberation and as much as I love the Champions League, in my opinion, the European Championships add something to the game that the Champions League cannot offer. This is why I think the European Championships is the second best soccer tournament in the world. Let me explain why.
Let's jump all the way back to when soccer was first played in England in the mid 19th century. The game quickly spread through Europe and became the most popular sports for Europeans at the time and remains the most popular sport until today. There is no question that European countries dominate international soccer as they have won half of the World Cups that have been played.
There are approximately 50 countries in Europe. However, only 13 countries are able to qualify for the World Cup from Europe. Every four years, some talented soccer teams are left out of the World Cup as there are simply not enough spots to fit all the best teams in from Europe. Greece and Russia were two of the top teams that were unable to qualify in 2006, while Portugal is in danger of not qualifying for the 2010 World Cup.
So how can we solve this problem? You could say that the teams that don't qualify don't deserve to be in the World Cup, but I have to disagree and say that there are several top teams that do not get to play in the World Cup each time as there are qualification limits. I think that the European Championships give Europe the perfect way to determine which is the top country on the most crazed soccer continent.
Now let us look briefly at the history of the European Championships. The first tournament was played in 1960, with the USSR being the first winner. Since then, 13 tournaments have been played with 9 different winners. Only Germany, France and Spain have won multiple times. This shows just how close and competitive this tournament is. There were surprise winners in Greece (2004) and Denmark (1992) and surprise teams making deep runs every tournament.
So yes, the FA cup is intriguing as it involves every team from England, but just how often does a great upset happen? Maybe once a year? Fact is, the FA Cup is dominated by Premiership teams. Lower level teams might win a game or two along the way, but you can bank on the fact that almost all of the teams close to the end of the tournament will be Premier League teams.
With the European championships, you never know who is going to win the tournament. There have been surprise teams winning it, making the final or semifinals or just putting on a great show that outplayed their expectations (think, Turkey 2008).
In closing, the FA Cup and UEFA Champions league tournaments are great. However, there is something to be said about playing for your country and your flag and only the European Championships can offer that.
You make a very convincing argument for the European Championships and, after thinking some, there's no wrong answer here. However, considering that the European Championship is held every four years, I think something is missing. There is something refreshing and historic about a tournament that is held every year and that features upsets galore.
The FA Cup, though, also has a huge advantage over the European Championship in terms of longevity. The FA Cup was started in 1871 and remains the longest running and oldest association football competition in the world. Where the European Championships only feature 16 teams, the FA Cup features 762 teams all playing for the honor of being declared the best team in their country. Furthermore, I think you overstate the upset factor of the European Championships. Outside of Greece in 2004 and Denmark in 1992, though, I'm not sure that any of these upsets can really be classified as gigantic updates.
With the FA Cup, though, upsets happen on a yearly basis and the upsets are gigantic. I've already discussed Wimbledon in 1975, but there are literally dozens of other cases:
- 1988, non-league Sutton United upset first division team Coventry City
- 1969, third division Mansfield Town upset first division team West Ham United
- 1972, Hereford United upset Newcastle United
- 1978, non-league Blyth Spartans advanced to the 5th round with several upsets
- 1994, Bristol City upset Liverpool
The list could literally go on and on and these are just the upsets that covered multiple league gaps. Championship teams have made run to the finals recently, including Cardiff City in 2008 and Millwall (who was in League One at the time) in 2004. These aren't just upsets in the fact that they made it to the final, but in the fact that they had both slain higher opposition along the way and continued to make a gigantic run.
The FA Cup is truly unique in the amount of teams that play and the sheer fact that, as a one off tournament, anything can happen.
I am not sure that longevity gives the FA Cup the edge here in this argument. Yes, it is the longest running tournament of all time, but does that really mean it is the best tournament in the world? I am not sold on that aspect of your argument.
Another point I want to dispute is the fact that it is better because it is held every year. I actually hold the opposite side of the argument, as I believe that a tournament that is held every four years is much more exciting. A tournament that is held every year could get stale (not saying the FA Cup is but it is more likely to become routine) while a tournament that is held every four years has much more build up and drama in the years leading up to the tournament.
In a sense, the Euros have what the FA Cup has to offer in that every team has a chance to qualify for the European Championships in the years leading up to each tournament. While every team in England has a bid to the FA Cup, theoretically every European team has a chance to make the Euros through qualifying.
And yes, upsets will happen, but the deep runs that are made outside of premier or championship teams are few and far between. If you take the upsets in the Euros (the two I mentioned) versus the deep runs you mentioned (197, 2004, 2008) and compare them to the amount of times the tournament is played, the difference is negligible. So yes, a few teams have made dramatic runs in the tournament, but as you said, this is the longest running tournament in the world, so it is bound to happen once in a while. When you look at it from 30,000 feet, you see a few teams win a single game in an upset and then lose the next game (which is bound to happen in a one and done tournament).
What the European championships add that the FA Cup cannot is the drama and inherent intrigue built up from holding the tournament every four years. This keeps the action fresh and the players motivated to do well. After the qualifying they have gone through and the fact that they are playing for their country, they feel obligated to put their best foot forward.
Does every premier and championship team put their best team on the pitch every game in the FA Cup? With the Champions League, league races and other tournaments happening at the same time, it is likely that you will see many teams put out a mixture of first and second team players in some games. This may be a reason that upsets happen (not the only reason, but a possible explanation for some of them) and partly diminishes some of the upsets (the 1969 Mansfield upset, for example).
It seems you are basing your entire argument on the fact that upsets happen alot of the time. With the sheer number of teams in the tournament and the style (one and done) the odds are in favor that some upsets will happen every year. Fact of the matter is, premier league teams dominate the late stages of the tournament, rendering much of the upset factor a moot point.
The European Championships offer players to compete for their country, which many players will say is the highest offer they can receive and a great honor. This is something the FA Cup cannot provide and I prefer international play over club play any time.
You'll get no argument from me about playing for the country, it is a great honor. However, I do not feel that it makes the Euros the best soccer tournament in the world. By that token, then what makes the Euros any better than Copa America, the Gold Cup, or any other international tournament? Playing for a nation is a great honor, but that alone does not make a great tournament and I feel that you are basing a huge part of your argument on the fact that players want to try their hardest because they are wearing their country's colors. While that adds an emotional element to it, I don't think it makes the Euros the best soccer tournament in the world.
However, I do feel that history is important. Being the longest running club soccer tournament in the world carries a lot of weight and makes the FA Cup that much more prestigious. Because every soccer team in England, essentially, has a chance at winning the FA Cup and holding the greatest honor in England, it is a unique and one of a kind tournament. Teams play for pride and they play for passion, especially on the smaller teams, to prove that they can play with the Chelsea's and Manchester United's of the world. The fact that games such as Millwall vs. Manchester United can even happen is amazing in and of itself. 726 teams all competing for the longest running and most historical trophy in the world means something.
Those upsets, though, are what makes the FA Cup special. Where the Euros are special because players are playing for their country, the FA Cup is special because players are out to prove themselves and, in some cases, may be playing for a whole city or county and representing them at a level rarely seen. The Euros don't offer that kind of opportunity as, to be honest, each country puts forward their best players and that is it. With the FA Cup, every team and every player has a chance at the glory of hoisting the Cup, it is just a matter of hard work, some luck, and favorable draws and every team has a chance.
While you may see drama and intrigue building up over four years, I instead see a tournament that is third place, at best, in most people's minds. Fans of most of the country are concerned about the European Club competitions, the World Cup, and then the Euros. While that same thing holds true in the Premier League in England, the Premier League alone does not contest the FA Cup. For most of the 726 teams, this is their World Cup, their European Championships. Most of those players will never get a chance to say that they played for England or played for a UEFA Champions' League team. However, regardless of how good they are, they will have the ability to say that they played in the longest running club soccer tournament in the world.
That fact alone, in my eyes, makes the FA Cup special. The fact that every team and every player in England has a chance to do something special and become history.
I think that the Euros is the second best tournament in the world (behind the World Cup) because it is the top continent in the world battling it out for supremacy for several years of who is the best European soccer country. Soccer has been the most popular sport in the world in Europe for many years and a tournament to determine which country in the best is exciting. It is better than Copa America, the Gold Cup, the African Nations Cup and the like because the level of play in European Countries is better top to bottom than any other continent.
Each World Cup, there are several top countries that are unable to qualify for the World Cup because of qualification restrictions on Europe. In the Euros, 16 teams are able to qualify, three more than the World Cup. There are usually about 16-18 quality soccer nations, so this is a great number to ensure a competitive, exciting tournament. There are no soft nations from America or Asia, just 16 top European countries battling for continental bragging rights.
You say that every team has the chance to hoist the FA Cup, but that is the same with the Euros. All 52 nations qualify for the tournament and all have a chance to hoist the trophy at the end of the tournament. As I said, there have been 9 different winners in 13 tournaments, showing that anything can happen and any team can win in any given year.
I am not sure that fans are more concerned about club titles over country titles. For example, in England, you can be a fan of Man U, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc etc and you will never see eye to eye on which club team is best. The country is divided on a club level, but is united on a country level when England is playing. it is a beautiful thing to see fans come together and see their national pride in rooting for their country in international competition. I believe this level of passion trumps the level seen on the club level and gives the edge to international soccer.
The European championships is the best tournament behind the World Cup because I believe that it is the greatest soccer continent battling it out in a well played and intriguing tournament. It is held once every four years, making it more special and giving the winner bragging rights until the next tournament. the quality of play top to bottom is better than the FA Cup and teams play harder in my opinion than they do in the FA Cup (which most premier teams see as the third most desirable trophy behind the league title and champions league).
Fact of the matter is, in my opinion, international play will always trump club play. With Europe being the best soccer continent, there is no better tournament behind the World Cup to see this happen in my opinion.
Thanks for the debate and good luck with voting.
